From: jbthoo@ucdavis.edu (John Thoo) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 21:20:03 PDT Subject: insurance for Mac equipment (report) Note to moderators: At the risk of repeating this submission, I'm sending you this report for the second time. (The notorious mailer daemon returned my first submission.) My apologies if this is, indeed, reaching you for the second time. --John. ========================================= Several digests ago, I posted the following query: >Does anyone own any insurance for Mac equipment? I've been thinking >lately that perhaps I should invest in some, perhaps as part of some >type of renter's insurance; but then something from a company called >`Safeware' (Columbus, OH) showed up in my snailmailbox yesterday. > >What's your opinion? Is insurance for Mac equipment and programs worth >getting? And, if so, what's the best `type' (whatever that means) of >insurance to get? And from where? And how much is considered reasonable, >and at what cost? The response has been fabulous. Not only were there replies posted directly to the digest, but I also received responses directly from Jerry K. A. Graff Harald Herchen Ed Kaszubowski Charles Martini Tim Richard Thanks for your help, folks. I really appreciate your help and advice in this matter. Insurance can be a confusing business, especially for one unschooled in such matters. I am submitting a compilation of all the responses I received directly, along with those I cut from the last few digests. I hope that this information will serve someone else as well as it's served me. The upshot is that if you have renter's insurance, then you might check into adding a rider for computer equipment. The extent to which such a rider would cover your equipment/software would, necessarily, depend on your insurance company. There are also companies around that specialize in computer insurance, one of which is Safeware (the company about which I enquired). One person compared such companies to those insurance companies that specialize in insuring motorcycle riders. Having one been an avid motorcycle rider, myself, I could relate to that. Several folks advised checking the BBB before purchasing insurance from any company with which one is not familiar---good advice in any case. Finally, there was one person who reported that the BBB had nothing bad to say about Safeware, and that Safeware's been in business since 1982. What I've summarized above is nowhere comprehensive. Please check out the compilation of responses I'm posting to read each of them for yourself. I've deleted all mailing headers from the responses I received directly; those that I cut from the last few digests still bear their mailing headers. Good luck! --John. J. B. THOO, Math. Dept., Univ. of California, Davis ============================================================================= MODERATORS: PLEASE CUT HERE ---------------------------------snip, snip---------------------------------- john - your regular household insurance should cover it (even if you live in a dorm, you can buy renter's insurance in most states). most insurance companies require you to add a computer equipment rider on your policy, and deductibles are usually in the $200 range (a pittance compared to the cost of mac systems). this shouldn't be more than $15 to $25 bucks on top of your regualr insurance, and should cover you for upwards of $10k. regular renter's insurance costs around $100 a year here in ann arbor (a college town with many many burglaries), and also covers your stereo and cds (perhaps as great a loss as your computer, if you have a big collection!). ------------- John, I had a homeowners policy last year when my Mac SE, DeskWriter, and a whole bunch of other stuff was stolen from my house. I was advised to get a policy with replacement value by my agent. It costs more but you have your stuff replaced instead of getting a cash settlement based on the depreciated value. It is a good choice if you are low income and/or are using older equipment for your work. I had everything replaced and was up and running again in a few weeks. I am living in a rental unit now and have my computers covered it a renters policy. Like the homeowners, you want to have an inventory of your stuff and receipts, etc in a safe place. I found out that my insurance would cover occasional use of my computer equipment at school, but if I kept it at work (school) neither the school's insurance or my own policy would cover it. Also if you take computers from work home, your policy will probably not cover it and you may get into hot water with your employer. Good luck. Stealing computers is big business these days. We had a $2K notebook with a $5K board for running an air pollution monitor stolen from one of our labs during spring break last month. A big killer in my case was that although I had my distribution disks in a file cabinet in another room and they were not taken, I had just set the disk file with my backups on the printer that morning. The backups were stolen with the system, probably for the box they in. That was probably the greatest loss for me as I had projects for work and a lot of personal work on them. The theft of something like that is like having a manuscript for a book stolen. You will get the medium on which you wrote it replaced as there is no way to put a value on your creative effort. ------------- In comp.sys.mac.digest you write: >Does anyone own any insurance for Mac equipment? I've been thinking >lately that perhaps I should invest in some, perhaps as part of some >type of renter's insurance; but then something from a company called >`Safeware' (Columbus, OH) showed up in my snailmailbox yesterday. >What's your opinion? Is insurance for Mac equipment and programs worth >getting? And, if so, what's the best `type' (whatever that means) of >insurance to get? And from where? And how much is considered reasonable, >and at what cost? Why not just rely on Renter's or Homeowner's insurance? Unless there is some special provision, like you have special "professional uses" for your equipment, basic home insurance should cover your mac just like they'll cover your TV, stereo, etc. It is my opinion that those special computer insurances are a scam. Easy money for them. Like selling earthquake insurance in Illinois. Incidentally, I live in a pretty-high crime-rate area of Chicago, and I pay $193 a year for $20,000 of coverage with a $100 deductible - basic renter's insurance from Allstate. Later. ------------- Hi John, Saw your posting in info-mac and thought I chime in with my $.02. I've had Safeware since I bought my current Mac system (2+ years now). Before I had an old plus, an imagewriter and a smidgeon of software. Now I have a IIci, laser printer, CD, Syquest, monitors, and tons of software. After discussing the insurance (or lack of it) provided by my homeowners policy, I looked around and selected Safeware's all-risk policy. If memory serves, I pay aboaut $200/year for $10,000 coverage. The coverage is all-risk -- including theft, fire, power surge, damn near anything. I (touch wood) haven't had a claim, but the company has been around quite a while and I've *never* seen anything negative posted or written about them. Hope this helps ps -- most homeowners/renters policies either specifically exclude personal computers or make you add a very expensive rider. And, many have clauses that say if you even so much as think business while using it, your PC becomes a business machine and you lose all coverage. I've heard, however, that there are some homeowners/renters policies which do cover them. Check with your agent first, and be sure you find out about all of the excusions and deductibles. ------------- Hi, yes, I have insurance for my Mac. I have about $6000 worth of equipment, and the insurance cost me $120.00. It is a little more expensive than other places, becuase it covers my Mac while I am on the road, i.e., in my car, even while unattended. I have driven over 20,000 miles, and it is worth it. If you just want coverage for your office, then if it is your personal machine, you should be able to get away with $80 for the same amount of Mac equipment. I don't know about your place, but around here, any Mac that isn't locked down is immediately stolen, and even if they are locked down, they sometimes get lifted. So insurance is essential, only one step below backups! I note that '486 PC's sit here blissfully unlocked, and they have never been lifted! I can't recall the name of my insurance agency, but they are located in Ohio, and advertise each month in the back of MacWorld. If nobody else tells you, I can look it up for you. Cheers! ------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 11:09:41 GMT From: photo@theporch.raider.net (David Anderson) Subject: insurance for Macs/peripherals/software (Q) Info-Mac@sumex-aim.stanford.edu writes: >Does anyone own any insurance for Mac equipment? I've been thinking >lately that perhaps I should invest in some, perhaps as part of some >type of renter's insurance; but then something from a company called >`Safeware' (Columbus, OH) showed up in my snailmailbox yesterday. >What's your opinion? Is insurance for Mac equipment and programs worth >getting? And, if so, what's the best `type' (whatever that means) of >insurance to get? And from where? And how much is considered reasonable, >and at what cost? >Lots of questions, but I don't know where else to turn for good, >honest advice on this. Thanks for your help. I have insurance on all my computer equipment, but it's wrapped up with my business insurance policy. It's not terribly expensive. Outside of the business policy, I'm not sure how I'd go about it. David Anderson nashville tn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 11:14:00 CDT From: PULLMANN@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Subject: Mac Insurance (R) John Thoo asks: >Does anyone own any insurance for Mac equipment? I've been thinking >lately that perhaps I should invest in some, perhaps as part of some >type of renter's insurance; but then something from a company called >`Safeware' (Columbus, OH) showed up in my snailmailbox yesterday. > >What's your opinion? Is insurance for Mac equipment and programs worth >getting? And, if so, what's the best `type' (whatever that means) of >insurance to get? And from where? And how much is considered reasonable, >and at what cost? What did this 'Safeware' outfit offer? Just as a personal opinion, I think some sort of insurance on computers in the home is a must, but I also think it's a field ripe for enormous rip-offs. My renter's insurance covers my equipment if it's stolen or flooded or whatever, and I have an Applecare policy to cover electrical/mechanical ills. This last is not cheap, but for me it's the only way to go, because I can budget for it and know that no matter what mega-$$$$ component of my system fails, I can get it fixed. For someone with a larger bank account, it might make more sense to gamble that by not paying premiums you could save enough money to cover any problems that might come up. Then again, maybe not... Pat Pat Ullmann PULLMANN@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU or PULLMANN@TRINITY (BITNET) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 13:59:36 PDT From: cmartini@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil Subject: [ANS] insurance for Macs/peripherals/software (Q) John Thoo wrote for information on insurance for Macs/peripherals/software... I've seen the ads for Safeware, but I don't know anything else about them. Before you buy a policy from them, I'd suggest the usual caveats: check with the Ohio Better Business Bureau, state insurance regulators, etc. As to buying Mac insurance in the first place...I'm a Lieutenant in the Navy, and I've had my computer equipment, and all electronics, insured for years with Armed Forces Co-Op. While that company's clientele is limited, other insurance companies offer similar policies to what I had: full coverage, with a replacement-cost floater. This covered me if, for example, my LC & 12" monitor fell off my desk at sea and smashed to bits. In this instance, the company would pay for a new LC III and 13" monitor, since the original LC and 12" monitor aren't available. For my money, a policy without replacement cost coverage for electronics is useless--the going rate for the LC I bought two years ago is $800. ACV (Actual Cash Value = depreciation) coverage for computer equipment is no good. Now, is any coverage needed? Depends on your usage. Is your Mac in a pilferable spot (ie-your office)? What are the chances of damage to the equipment? Do you have insurance for other high-value items you own? I've never seen a policy that covers software. The best policy I can think of is regular backups. If your data is especially critical, the best thing to do is keep one recent backup off-site. You should always keep your master application disks locked and securely stored. The only kind of software insurance policy I can imagine would be one that guards you against business losses caused by loss of data/software. Just tossin' out some thoughts... _____ \ / Chuck Martini \o/ Oak Harbor, WA | cmartini@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil _|_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 13:16:19 CDT From: gray@cmgroup.engr.wisc.edu Subject: insurance for Macs/peripherals/software (C) I have renters insurance through State Farm and computer equipment (up to $8000, I believe) is included in that. It is also replacement insurance and doesn't shaft me on depreciation. You can also add a rider to the policy if you have more than $8000 of hardware/software. I personally wouldn't be without it. Computers and their software are an awfully big investment to let go up in flames or get stolen without protection. Best regards, Gary L. Gray * Engineering Mechanics & Astronautics gray@cmgroup.engr.wisc.edu * University of Wisconsin-Madison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 17:03:25 -0800 From: Jerry Wilcox Subject: Computer Insurance (R) I have been most interested in seeing comments in Info-Mac regarding computer insurance, especially the ones indicating that State Farm renter's insurance covers computers. I have homeowner's insurance (plus earthquake, auto, life, and a few others) also through State Farm. When I bought my system for home several years ago, I turned first to my agent who carefully pointed out that my policy specifically excluded "business equipment" from any coverage. He was quite candid with me and said that while the company would cover a Nintendo, or perhaps even something like a Commodore 64 as a "home computer," my Macintosh System (which cost > $10K back then) was clearly for "business" and would not be covered. He offered to write me a "business" policy, but then was very open about telling me to look first at the companies which specialized in insuring computers. This caused me to stop and think about an earlier situation of a similar type -- motorcycle insurance. Years ago when I was an active rider, I did all the research and discovered that the "traditional" insurance companies all charged a lot more for motorcycle insurance than did the companies specializing in motorcycles. Suspecting that the same thing might be true of computer insurance, I checked with several other insurance carriers, in addition to companies like Safeware. I learned a great deal. Some companies cover computers with their homeowner's or renter's insurance; many do not, or make the deductible so high that it isn't worthwhile. Some allow the addition of a rider to cover extra value or reduce deductibile; others don't. The bottom line for me is that I bought a policy from Safeware that covers all of my hardware *and* software against all risks, including even power surges and the like. One netter commented that s/he had never seen insurance covering software, and why bother -- just keep adequate backups. Unfortunately, a fire or earthquake might cause me to lose the documentation and the original disks, things which a backup cannot replace. It is a loss to me if I have to repurchase a package because I don't have the original disks or because I need the documentation. Your bottom line might be different, but if you think that your computer is automatically covered by your current insurance, I'd urge you to check again, carefully, just to make sure it actually is. Jerry ----- Jerry Wilcox - iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu All opinions are mine alone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 04:15:01 GMT From: rik@world.std.com (Rik Ahlberg) Subject: Mac Insurance (R) Info-Mac@sumex-aim.stanford.edu writes: >John Thoo asks: >>Does anyone own any insurance for Mac equipment? I've been thinking >>lately that perhaps I should invest in some, perhaps as part of some >>type of renter's insurance; but then something from a company called >>`Safeware' (Columbus, OH) showed up in my snailmailbox yesterday. I got the same mailing and think I'll fax them for more info... it seems odd that they cover whatever you have without requiring a specific list of equipment, just a price range. But they claim they cover you for complete replacement without depreciation... and that on my 5-year-old SE would be great if it were ever stolen or damaged. And it's a minor premium, only about $70 to cover up to $5,000 worth of equipment for a year. You might also want to look into insurance services offered by the large users groups (BCS, BMUG, etc.) as I was just looking at a flyer on an extension policy for homeowners insurance from the BCS. Rik Sources: Safeware, 2929 N. High St., PO Box 02211, Columbus, OH 43202 BCS Insurance Services (COMPASS Associates), 1-800-464-0703 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 14:21:08 EST From: Kenneth Simon Subject: Safeware Computer Insurance In answer to the recent musings about the Safeware Insurance Company: I just bought some insurance from them after checking with the Better Business Bureau: they are a member of the BBB with no complaints on file. They have been in business since 1982. Sounds promising to me! ------------ Kenneth Simon, Indiana University Internet: KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU Bitnet: KSSIMON@IUBACS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 08:46:25 -0600 From: bwalls@marvin.msfc.nasa.gov Subject: Computer insurance (C) Jerry Wilcox says >...system for home several years ago, I turned first to my agent who carefully >pointed out that my policy specifically excluded "business equipment" from >any coverage. He was quite candid with me and said that while the company >would cover a Nintendo, or perhaps even something like a Commodore 64 as a >"home computer," my Macintosh System (which cost > $10K back then) was >clearly for "business" and would not be covered. He offered to write me a >"business" policy, but then was very open about telling me to look first at >the companies which specialized in insuring computers. Just wanted to comment that I have State Farm Homeowner's insurance. They cover computer equipment up to about $3000, and offer a rider for more expensive things. This is the same type policy as for furs, guns, and coin collections. Home computers (and other consumer electronics) are much more common today than a few years ago, so calling any real computer "for business" may have changed, but I would look closely at any renter's policy to see what it actually says. I have an LC with a Personal LaserWriter LS. Right now I'm still going with the $3k limit, but I'm definitely on the edge for full replacement. Bryan Walls My words are not NASA policy. bwalls@marvin.msfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 03:47:55 -0400 From: Scott E Maxwell Subject: Insurance & software... I will start out with a good old traditional disclaimer: I reserve the right to be wrong; I am no legal expert; this is opinion and not fact (?). I have recently seen a question and resulting comments on insurance for computers. In general I don't know that much about the subject, other than I have renter's insurance through State Farm that covers $10,000 in hardware AND software. Recently, Chuck Martini (cmartini@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil) said he had never seen a policy that covers software. I am not necessary going to contradict him (I guess I already did though? ;-). The way I see it is the point is totally irrelevant. If someone steals your disks, your house burns down, or some other wild disaster happens to you software, you should be able to get another set of disks from the software company. You may have to pay a small fee to cover the cost of shipping and the disks, but you should not be out your software. Why? Well, according the whole idea of software is that I buy the right to use the program, not the program itself. I own the disks the software is on and the manual that came with the program; thus I would have to pay for new "copies" of those. However, even if those items are lost, I still "own" the right to use the software. I haven't violted the licensing agreement by any of this, so I should be able to get another copy of the software. I welcome your comments (& flames :-). Scott Maxwell The University of Michigan smaxwell@engin.umich.edu ------------------------------